God loved the birds and invented trees. Man loved the birds and invented cages.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 3,241 Location: Western NY
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #1 on Jul 7, 2006, 11:33pm »
Interesting. The federal gov't is investigating teflonand its effects on people. Dupont paid something like 12 million dollars in fines for false claims about teflon safety. The question of teflon safety has popped up in the last week on several chats. Is someone having a big sale on cookware? Funny but I think the whole issue of teflon safety was brought up because several parrots died when fumes from teflon killed a bunch of them.----Yogi
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,301 Location: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #2 on Jul 8, 2006, 12:35am »
It is odd, Yogi. There are so many conflicting reports. See http://tinyurl.com/rqs44 - which quotes Govt. studies. Same thing going on re plastics in the microwave.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 1,656 Location: SE Florida
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #3 on Jul 8, 2006, 1:24am »
Couldn't get that last link you posted to work for me, Hugh, even when I copied the whole thing and pasted it into my browser.
However, the advice given about birds in the kitchen is really good and I hope people read it and take precautions.
But.... I got rid of all my teflon and silverstone coated cookware long time ago. I don't want to take any chances It really got through to me when a friend (newbie to companion birds) lost four finches after having them in his home for less than a month due to burning some fish on a teflon pan. He had company that night and thought that it was the spray he used to control the odor. Next day. he told me about it and I asked if he burned the fish on a non-stick pan. Yep, it was. I felt horrible and somewhat responsible that I didn't warn him about overheating nonstick cookware. Ug
we ALL share the environment. please handle with care.
Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 366 Location: central jersey
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #6 on Jul 11, 2006, 12:29pm »
I can understand the concern over birds in the kitchen. Speaking as a toxicologist in training (read as poor starving grad student), teflon can release some lovely little nasties into the air. At the same time, the air we breathe (inside or outside) has some pretty icky stuff already in it. The concern for birds is the same concern for humans but humans can tolerate much higher levels since we have more body tissue to infect before seeing a toxic effect. One thing to consider is that the dose makes the poison. Even for chocolate, a certain amount has to be ingested for ANY effect. As pescimistic as this is going to sound, I would take scientific studies with a grain of salt. It is easier than you may think to "tweek" data to fit the idea you want it to and sadly EVERYONE does it..incl gov't. That exact point is what caused the Sweet and Low cancer scare not long ago. Yes, it is correct that S/L can be carcinogenic, BUT you would have to ingest an amazingly large amount in a very short time before your body has time to metabolize it for that effect to occur. The best thing to do is keep doing your homework, see the scientific papers/gov't reports, and make your best informed decision.
Disregarding the whole "kitchen air quality" (teflon or cooking oil fumes as mentioned by the first article) issue for a moment, i just dont want a hard boiled/deep fried Andie or for him to think that a sink of soapy dishes is a birdbath. Due to the safety aspect, he is only allowed in the kitchen when I am prepping fresh fruits or veggies that he not so sneakily steals some of. I would love for him to be with me all the time when I am home, but he is not the type to stay still and I dont want him hurt.
Hugh- plastic in the microwave has always been an issue. Basically microwave cooking in general isn't the greatest idea as it is a form of unnatural radiation, but its sooooo convenient that I do it constantly and I should know better. *shrug* Besides, its not as bad as the air we breathe.
To end on a non-depressing note: Andie and i had our 6 month lunaversary
Joined: Jun 2005 Gender: Male Posts: 2,301 Location: West Vancouver, B.C. Canada
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #7 on Jul 12, 2006, 3:22am »
loa - you make good points regarding the amounts of various substances required to reach serious levels of toxicity. The problem with Teflon is that once the temperature reaches a level which will produce PTFE off-gassing then it is too late for birds. They cannot tolerate even minute amounts of the toxins.
Both our birds are clipped so they are unable to fly to the stove top but we still exercise extreme vigilance when cooking. After 20+ years it has become second nature. I also guess that my 45 years of experience as a casualty insurance underwriter has made me more attuned to hazards - - - and I don't mean the obvious ones like "don't run with sharp sticks" etc.
Hugh & Crew
« Last Edit: Jul 12, 2006, 3:23am by Hugh & Crew »
we ALL share the environment. please handle with care.
Joined: Mar 2006 Gender: Female Posts: 366 Location: central jersey
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #8 on Jul 12, 2006, 10:44am »
You're right, even minute amounts of many substances can be toxic to even humans, let alone our tiny birdie buddies. I tossed my Teflon when Andie found us because of that fact. It is always better to use caution, as you more than well know being an insurance analyst. let's here it for the slightly depressing careers since toxicologist isnt much more cheerful. You would have a field day with the biochemistry professor I work for...he still pipettes by mouth, doesnt wear gloves, doesnt use the hood..basically ignores all of the safety recommendations in the lab. we are still trying to figure out how he has survived as long as he has (50yrs in a lab).
Thanks for the link. I did not know the extent of the controversy over the issue, even something like freezing water in plastic bottles.
When my bf and I move into our own place in Sept, we can fid proof the whole apt. until then, its too dangerous to have andie fly around the kitchen with my 3 roomates' cooking utensils lying around ready to hurt my baby.
Joined: Aug 2004 Gender: Female Posts: 653 Location: Southern California
Re: Birds in the kitchen « Reply #9 on Aug 21, 2006, 10:21am »
Hi,
Brandy Too loves to watch what I am preparing, always getting excited to see what we are going to eat. I place her on a perch in the preparation area. Sometimes I will let her see what's cooking in my small convection oven, and she can hardly wait. Since she is out a good deal of the time I put a heavy cast iron lid over the last used burner. Always put her in her cage when cooking anything on the stove, but sometimes I forget, and to eliminate her flying onto something dangerous I have found a wonderful hindrance to the burner. I have an L shaped metal divider about 12" tall which I set around two sides of the burner, placed next to the fan for fumes. I found this in the shelving section of accessories for birds. Also great for catching grease if frying.
Hardly use microwave, except for some frozen meals and to soften ice cream in container, then I read that the cardboard container used was dangerous.
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It really got through to me when a friend (newbie to companion birds) lost four finches after having them in his home for less than a month due to burning some fish on a teflon pan. He had company that night and thought that it was the spray he used to control the odor. Next day. he told me about it and I asked if he burned the fish on a non-stick pan. Yep, it was. I felt horrible and somewhat responsible that I didn't warn him about overheating nonstick cookware. Ug 
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since toxicologist isnt much more cheerful. You would have a field day with the biochemistry professor I work for...he still pipettes by mouth, doesnt wear gloves, doesnt use the hood..basically ignores all of the safety recommendations in the lab. we are still trying to figure out how he has survived as long as he has (50yrs in a lab).